This episode explores the transformative shifts in additive manufacturing within prosthetics and orthotics, highlighting key insights from the AMS conference. A focus on open manufacturing options and investor relationships underscores the challenges and opportunities for enhancing patient care in this evolving landscape. • Discussion on reflections and takeaways from AMS • Emphasis on the importance of open manufacturing systems • Insights from industry leaders about consumer demand for flexibility • Analysis of the investor's role in driving innovation • Examination of Proteor's acquisition of Filament Innovations • Exploration of the potential for global consumer markets • Reflections on the future of 3D printing in O&P
Special thanks to Structure for sponsoring this episode.
00:00:00.620 --> 00:00:03.810 Welcome to Season 10 of the Prosthetics and Orthotics Podcast.
00:00:03.810 --> 00:00:11.846 This is where we chat with experts in the field, patients who use these devices, physical therapists and the vendors who make it all happen.
00:00:11.846 --> 00:00:20.125 Our goal To share stories, tips and insights that ultimately help our patients get the best possible outcomes.
00:00:20.125 --> 00:00:23.207 Tune in and join the conversation.
00:00:23.207 --> 00:00:27.329 We are thrilled you are here and hope it is the highlight of your day.
00:00:27.329 --> 00:00:29.152 Hello everyone.
00:00:29.440 --> 00:00:34.970 My name is Joris Peebles and welcome to the Prosthetics and Orthotics Podcast with Brent Wright.
00:00:34.970 --> 00:00:35.572 How are you doing, brent?
00:00:37.625 --> 00:00:42.991 I got to tell you I really enjoyed AMS.
00:00:42.991 --> 00:00:45.429 You guys did an amazing job, and I think the other cool thing is it was the first time we met.
00:00:45.429 --> 00:00:48.179 Yeah, I really enjoyed AMS, you guys did an amazing job, and I think the other cool thing is it was the first time we met.
00:00:48.761 --> 00:00:48.860 Yeah.
00:00:48.881 --> 00:00:49.704 In like three years.
00:00:49.704 --> 00:00:50.904 How crazy is that.
00:00:51.365 --> 00:00:52.429 I don't know, it was super weird.
00:00:52.429 --> 00:00:54.368 I thought it was super weird, dude, because I'd known you so much.
00:00:54.368 --> 00:01:01.551 We talked for hundreds of hours Like uh, and to see you first and be like let's do dinner or something, it was really strange.
00:01:01.551 --> 00:01:02.332 It was really strange.
00:01:02.332 --> 00:01:04.774 It was really very, very strange, um, but really nice yeah.
00:01:04.834 --> 00:01:07.114 So that was funny because it was like I roll in.
00:01:07.114 --> 00:01:08.275 It was later at night.
00:01:08.275 --> 00:01:12.078 You were like I don't even know if I'm gonna be up, I still have jet lag and all this stuff.
00:01:12.078 --> 00:01:14.701 You come down and you're like, let's go get korean.
00:01:14.701 --> 00:01:18.331 I'm like, okay, I've never had korean food before, but it was good.
00:01:18.331 --> 00:01:28.974 Right, it was great the flavors were were great okay, good, good so but yeah, I mean, what was your biggest takeaway?
00:01:29.015 --> 00:01:36.364 I know last, last year we talked a little bit after you finished up with the ams and you were like, hey, this is a little bit of a reality check.
00:01:36.364 --> 00:01:38.549 It was actually a little bit of a downer.
00:01:38.549 --> 00:01:50.075 Um, last year I wasn't there so I can't confirm, but I believe, believe you, and you know so now this year I would say spirits were up, still real.
00:01:50.075 --> 00:01:53.700 But what was your overall take on it?
00:01:54.843 --> 00:01:55.305 I agree with you.
00:01:55.305 --> 00:01:55.846 I agree with you.
00:01:55.846 --> 00:02:21.161 It was like again reality check, but everyone was doing saying useful things, like useful things looking at barriers to 3D printing, looking at at removing them, looking at how to industrialize the technology further, how to work with clients better, how to collaborate and not to join some organization to be all best friends or whatever, but to really work at the software companies alongside materials companies to distribute the burden of industrializing the technology.
00:02:21.161 --> 00:02:26.770 So, so generally, it's like we're feeling our way towards an exit kind of, and, like last year, felt like an escape room.
00:02:26.770 --> 00:02:33.391 We built this really beautiful palace, you know, and we, everything was wonderful, and we told her we sold everybody on the dream.
00:02:33.391 --> 00:02:38.742 And then it ends up being in prison, all right, because all of a sudden you're held to the standard of the stuff we sold.
00:02:38.742 --> 00:02:41.610 We need to accept responsibility for that too, uh, uh.
00:02:41.610 --> 00:02:50.167 But then it became very, very confining and now it's much more like okay, we're, you know, like we're, a finicky machine tool.
00:02:50.167 --> 00:03:11.306 Let's accept that and and and let's accept how we march forward is to make it more accessible, so easier for clients to adopt the technology, easier to implement, easier to do, uh things, and there's a lot of stuff that was new but older, as in it's been said before but it hasn't maybe been said enough.
00:03:12.014 --> 00:03:16.991 And so we were really happy that we had Stefanos Bosch, for example, for BMW.
00:03:16.991 --> 00:03:17.801 He was there.
00:03:17.801 --> 00:03:19.365 It's always nice to have customers, right.
00:03:19.365 --> 00:03:25.584 And he's a customer and he's saying, yeah, we have additive processes that produce tens of thousands of parts already and that's all automated.
00:03:25.584 --> 00:03:28.637 And he's saying, yeah, we have additive processes that produce tens of thousands of parts already and that's all automated, that's all introduced.
00:03:28.637 --> 00:03:30.323 Those are actually kind of ceramics processes for them.
00:03:31.967 --> 00:03:39.073 Um, you know, but a lot of the normal technologies are the more familiar technologies for us, like powder bed fusion and material extrusion.
00:03:39.073 --> 00:03:46.554 We've never adopted because you guys are overcharging some of the material, right, and you guys aren't inhibiting the industrialization of this.
00:03:46.554 --> 00:03:50.323 So so that kind of reality check stuff was, I think, very, very fundamental, very important.
00:03:50.323 --> 00:03:52.168 So so I thought it was good.
00:03:52.168 --> 00:03:56.366 And then, yeah, generally I think we had a good share of leadership.
00:03:56.366 --> 00:04:01.860 We had people talking about submarines, flights, everything in between, kind of essentially.
00:04:01.860 --> 00:04:03.163 So so I think that was good.
00:04:03.163 --> 00:04:03.644 It was good.
00:04:03.644 --> 00:04:20.512 There was like 400 ish people or something you know, nearly everyone in the industry and everyone you know either a vendor from 3d printed electronics to, um, you know, metal components to polymer, and a bunch of users, bunch of investors, that kind of thing yeah, I mean I, you know.
00:04:20.572 --> 00:04:23.285 So there was a couple things just struck me as interesting.
00:04:23.285 --> 00:04:29.680 I love the, the guy from BMW, so I think that one definitely was a home run because he, so it was real right.
00:04:29.680 --> 00:04:34.007 So it's like he could talk the shop, he knows the stuff, he knows how to buy machines and all that.
00:04:34.007 --> 00:04:42.471 But I think he really hammered home the point to the, to the OEMs is like y'all, we, we want to have options, options for materials.
00:04:42.471 --> 00:04:46.422 Do not sell us a black box anymore.
00:04:46.422 --> 00:04:48.045 And that came through loud and clear.
00:04:48.045 --> 00:04:59.665 And you know the lady that talked about the train stuff, stephanie, she also had some of that to say and even the healthcare people, the same sort of thing.
00:04:59.685 --> 00:05:14.466 It's like this boxing in is inhibiting the ability for people to make choices, because these CapEx expenditures are massive and if you only have a choice of a couple materials, we may not end up using that.
00:05:14.466 --> 00:05:16.107 So that's one part.
00:05:16.107 --> 00:05:31.343 The second part that hit hard is and I forget who said it, it was on one of the panels, but they said everybody forgets the word after additive, it's manufacturing.
00:05:31.343 --> 00:05:31.824 I didn't know that.
00:05:31.824 --> 00:05:33.689 That was beautiful, dude.
00:05:33.689 --> 00:05:41.410 They were like additive is a form of manufacturing and we have to come to the realization of.
00:05:41.410 --> 00:05:45.048 That is, most people don't care how the products are made, you know.
00:05:45.048 --> 00:05:53.394 So some of the nerves get in, so manufacturing, and it just happens to be that we use additive technologies for that.
00:05:53.394 --> 00:05:56.571 Yeah, that's a good point that I thought that was good.
00:05:56.992 --> 00:06:00.843 And then, lastly, on the investors, and I thought it was very cool to have the investor track.
00:06:00.843 --> 00:06:05.129 So whoever thought, of that it was.
00:06:05.651 --> 00:06:08.035 It was so great because it you know.
00:06:08.035 --> 00:06:09.583 So it was two things.
00:06:09.583 --> 00:06:11.949 One is you have the VC guys.
00:06:11.949 --> 00:06:16.725 The private equity guys are like, if you can do it without us, do it Right.
00:06:16.725 --> 00:06:17.528 So it was.
00:06:17.528 --> 00:06:19.593 It was a little bit of honesty there.
00:06:19.593 --> 00:06:28.487 It's like hey, cause, if not, you know you're going to get money, but there's going to be, it's going to be faster, you're going to have to meet these milestones.
00:06:28.487 --> 00:06:30.269 There's a lot of pressure, all that stuff.
00:06:30.269 --> 00:06:32.449 So there was that part.
00:06:32.449 --> 00:06:40.656 But I think the other part and I forget which person on the panel that said it was it was the guy from Lightforce.
00:06:43.204 --> 00:06:44.528 Yeah, yeah so.
00:06:48.000 --> 00:06:48.560 I'll come up with a second.
00:06:48.560 --> 00:06:58.065 He talked about how the first aligner was done in 1946 by this dentist, and it was amazing, but he couldn't scale it because he was trying to keep all the property to himself.
00:06:58.065 --> 00:07:03.084 And so he's sitting on this amazing product but no way to scale it.
00:07:03.084 --> 00:07:15.435 And so for me that hit hard, because it was like what are some of the things that we're sitting on, bringing it home advanced 3D, some of the things that we do that we're trying to kind of hold on?
00:07:15.435 --> 00:07:18.343 It's not quite a product, but it could be a product.
00:07:18.343 --> 00:07:29.865 And so it really inspired me to be like okay, let's plant a flag in the sand and let's create a product out of this, and then we have something to sell and scale.
00:07:29.865 --> 00:07:31.932 And so that meant a lot to me.
00:07:32.279 --> 00:07:33.865 I'm so I'm trying to look up this guy.
00:07:33.865 --> 00:07:34.547 I forgot the name.
00:07:34.547 --> 00:07:35.610 I'm terrible, I feel terrible.
00:07:35.610 --> 00:07:42.189 I'll look it up later, but anyways, the guy, yeah, the guy was great and I remember that and I think no but, I, think it's really beautiful.
00:07:42.209 --> 00:08:01.711 I think a lot of investors always say, like the ideas are nothing, it's execution, it's everything Right, and we always forget that a lot of these concepts are nothing without like the scalability, without the cost and the amount of customers, I have to turn away because, or turn away from additive because, like the materials too expensive, machine or that combination is just insane.
00:08:01.779 --> 00:08:03.406 And that's kind of a lot of those artificial.
00:08:03.406 --> 00:08:09.293 A lot of that is because somebody wants to show some other corporate titan that they can make money and add it.
00:08:09.293 --> 00:08:19.204 It's not like, and what I keep saying to people is like everybody's looking at like, for example, the toner and printer, like for paper printing, right, and they're looking at that market.
00:08:19.204 --> 00:08:59.822 But what they never don't forget is that inkjet ink is super expensive and the printers are relatively affordable, but the paper is cheap, right, so all in all, the individual print of a page we don't even know what it is, but it's a couple of cents or less or something, even though they're making a ton of money on the inkjet ink, right, and what we're doing is we're making the screens expensive, no-transcript than it needs to be much smaller so I think, though you know ams, I mean it was big, big crowd, probably your biggest yet, right?
00:09:00.043 --> 00:09:02.746 for us, yeah, but it's meant to be a small event, right it?
00:09:02.746 --> 00:09:03.607 It's like 400 people.
00:09:03.607 --> 00:09:05.410 That's the thing I mean we wouldn't See.
00:09:05.410 --> 00:09:07.514 The thing is, everyone needs to be accessible to everyone else.
00:09:08.034 --> 00:09:08.414 That's right.
00:09:09.340 --> 00:09:09.621 And that works.
00:09:09.621 --> 00:09:16.710 And you can have people like Yoav Zaif there, scott Crump is there for the whole week, you know that kind of stuff, and then they're accessible to everyone else.
00:09:16.710 --> 00:09:35.304 And if we double it, because then it wouldn't work, nothing would work anymore right.
00:09:35.566 --> 00:09:49.169 Well, and I think I think it's important, like before, everybody just drops everything and be like I want to go to AMS, like AMS is different than AMUG and that sort of thing because it's additive manufacturing strategies.
00:09:49.169 --> 00:09:52.381 So it's the business, it's the reality, it's not.
00:09:52.381 --> 00:09:58.385 You don't get super technical, you get to see a little bit of the future, you get to see some of the leaders.
00:09:58.385 --> 00:10:11.966 So, like, meeting Scott Crump was pretty amazing, and one of the things that I thought was interesting is I read this quote and one of the things that I thought was interesting is and I read this quote that some of the smartest people in the room are the most curious, and Scott is always curious.
00:10:11.966 --> 00:10:13.191 So it was interesting.
00:10:13.660 --> 00:10:21.905 When we were talking he was like hey, man, we tried to do the prosthetic and orthotic stuff and it was some of the most fulfilling work I ever did, but it was super hard.
00:10:21.905 --> 00:10:24.307 He goes, you can have that and I thought that was.
00:10:24.307 --> 00:10:25.456 You know, that was.
00:10:25.456 --> 00:10:26.120 That was funny.
00:10:26.120 --> 00:10:29.490 And it was also funny that he's like I'm not doing any podcasts.
00:10:29.490 --> 00:10:35.110 I don't care if it's the 3d pod or the broadcast podcast, and then we've been asking him for.
00:10:35.149 --> 00:10:38.988 I've known him for a really long time and I've been asking him for like years and it's not working.
00:10:38.988 --> 00:11:13.745 It's not going to work no-transcript yeah, no, I agree, agree.
00:11:13.765 --> 00:11:20.802 And I think if you want to buy a machine, for example, if you're looking to expand your services, you want to find out which machines are good or whatever, then I advise you, go to amonk, right?
00:11:20.802 --> 00:11:24.470 If you want to see everything that's happening in the industry, then form next right.
00:11:24.470 --> 00:11:26.894 So so it's a very different thing.
00:11:26.894 --> 00:11:38.211 But if you're also, if you're not only like a business leader, but if you're a startup person as well, then I think it's really valuable as well, because you know what startups work, what doesn't work, what everybody's already kind of priced in, if you will.
00:11:38.211 --> 00:11:43.065 So I think for definitely for people in startups or investing in startups, people want to do that.
00:11:43.065 --> 00:11:45.008 It could be really great as well.
00:11:45.008 --> 00:11:45.168 Yeah.
00:11:45.908 --> 00:11:49.072 Yeah, so anyway, great job to you and your team.
00:11:49.072 --> 00:11:49.873 I thought it was.
00:11:49.873 --> 00:11:54.821 I thought it was great I had glad I had the opportunity to not only meet you but meet this.
00:11:54.821 --> 00:11:56.788 It was definitely something that I learned a lot.
00:11:56.788 --> 00:12:00.465 I had my little notebook journal thing, took a bunch of notes.
00:12:06.080 --> 00:12:07.701 It got a lot of soundbite type of things and overall concepts, and so that was.
00:12:07.701 --> 00:12:08.048 It was just really great, awesome.
00:12:08.048 --> 00:12:08.249 I'm glad you liked it.
00:12:08.249 --> 00:12:10.615 Yeah, it was like a ton of things and we're a really small 3Dprintcom, really small teams.
00:12:10.615 --> 00:12:12.908 You know, we start.
00:12:12.908 --> 00:12:24.225 We're going to start in a couple weeks already on organizing the next ones, so it's pretty crazy that this and the people actually like Marilyn and Missy, for example, are the ones that actually make it bring together and they did an awesome job.
00:12:24.225 --> 00:12:24.866 It was really amazing.
00:12:24.986 --> 00:12:26.849 Yeah, they did so.
00:12:26.849 --> 00:12:29.030 We have a new sponsor, yours.
00:12:29.451 --> 00:12:29.951 Super cool.
00:12:30.251 --> 00:12:40.149 So we had Ravi on last episode and they were like hey, you know what we really like, what you're doing, and we'd like to sponsor the next few episodes.
00:12:40.149 --> 00:12:56.648 So they're going to close out season 10 for us and you know, we think that scanning is the foundation of creating an orthosis and a prosthesis, and so it is a massive barrier to get outcomes.
00:12:56.648 --> 00:13:18.998 And so and I know you've been saying, scanning needs to be easy, and I think that is part of what they're trying to do is create a low-cost, high-accuracy, high-precision for our field, to democratize the scanning process so everybody can get a quality prosthesis or orthosis, and I think that's pretty neat.
00:13:21.519 --> 00:13:22.623 Yeah, I think that Structure Scanner does.
00:13:22.643 --> 00:13:23.645 I think the cool thing is okay.
00:13:23.645 --> 00:13:52.210 Definitely, if you are making an app or if you're doing like trying to get you know a bunch of offices to use scanning to digitize your whole workflow, or if you want to put an orthosis thing in all every foot walker or something, you know something like that, then definitely talk to them because this is a solution that uses just off-the-shelf hardware that you can also use for your Pulse or whatever other kind of systems to order things, and they use that hardware to let people scan stuff.
00:13:52.210 --> 00:13:58.469 Just Apple hardware we all have on us probably already, and I think it was a very, very powerful package for that.
00:13:58.469 --> 00:14:14.159 And especially if you're also looking at, you know, maybe having a scanning app or doing that as a really big part of your practice, everyday thing, I think it's a really exciting kind of idea to have a scanning Lego block, if you will, that you can integrate into lots of different workflows, solutions, products and companies.
00:14:14.159 --> 00:14:15.826 So, yeah, really happy they're sponsoring.
00:14:15.826 --> 00:14:17.405 I'm really, really a huge fan of what they do.
00:14:17.888 --> 00:14:22.602 Yeah, and just a lot of people say, well, I have this phone, why don't I just use this?
00:14:22.602 --> 00:14:25.250 And I think Ravi shared exactly why.
00:14:25.250 --> 00:14:35.225 It's like, the main consumer of the front-facing camera of the iPhone is the iPhone.
00:14:35.225 --> 00:14:40.985 They don't really care what you think you can use for it, they are going to make it to make their product the way that they think it should be made.
00:14:40.985 --> 00:14:44.985 And he was just talking about the updates and the different hardware and that sort of thing.
00:14:44.985 --> 00:14:56.889 And that's why it's important to have the extra separate, separate piece of hardware that is standardized, and so I think that's a neat way to think about it and a neat way to go definitely definitely all right.
00:14:56.909 --> 00:14:57.832 What else you want to discuss?
00:14:57.852 --> 00:15:00.881 man, so had a little bit of a surprise.
00:15:00.881 --> 00:15:11.974 I think you actually shot me the link too and, uh, I, I I saw it come through my feed that, uh, you know we're we're big fans of FDM, we're big fans of high flow.
00:15:11.974 --> 00:15:25.604 Um, you know you love vase mode and so, like every time we talk to the team from film innovations, I mean you just, I mean, had a lot to say about what they were doing.
00:15:25.604 --> 00:15:34.979 And, um, and Protear, a French company, found that they had a lot of value and a value that they can bring to the O&P field.
00:15:34.979 --> 00:15:38.933 We already knew this, right, we had much of their team on and they bought them.
00:15:40.905 --> 00:15:46.211 And so I want to just discuss through like, okay, what does that mean?
00:15:46.211 --> 00:15:50.758 A very small nimble team.
00:15:50.758 --> 00:16:03.725 Right Now you have a more of a corporate-esque type of thing where the ship can be harder to guide, but that team probably is going to be a smaller team within Proteor.
00:16:03.725 --> 00:16:06.570 That has a great latitude.
00:16:06.570 --> 00:16:20.697 But you also have to now make for the masses, because when, when they send these machines out, they need to be ready to go for a long period of time or you're going to be on the hook supporting them.
00:16:20.697 --> 00:16:31.851 So I'd like to just find out, you know and talk through some of that of pluses and minuses, pros and cons of of this acquisition okay.
00:16:31.871 --> 00:16:45.831 So, first of all, the surprising thing about this was that usually when people are looking to build their own like end-to-end tool chain and they want to buy hardware even though not a hardware company, right they tend to go for shinier stuff Like what I mean, you know what I mean.
00:16:45.831 --> 00:16:48.184 They tend to go for more form, lens looking stuff, you know it's.
00:16:48.184 --> 00:16:59.107 It's more whiz, bang and shiny and and, like you know, built for in-office use out of nice bits of plastic and stuff like that and it's more convenient.
00:16:59.107 --> 00:17:03.437 And you know, filament innovations is big, huge, like drop it out of an airplane type machines.
00:17:03.437 --> 00:17:06.006 So it's a very different thing, right.
00:17:06.006 --> 00:17:12.358 Having said that, also from there's a value perspective from in a US manufacturing context, a general US manufacturing, also US defense manufacturing.
00:17:12.358 --> 00:17:16.829 There could have been a lot more options for for filming innovations on that front as well.
00:17:16.829 --> 00:17:29.490 Now, they're kind of, you know, I think that way is blocked right, because I think, as a, as a French prosthetics company, I'm not going to sell to Lockheed, I mean, I don't think that's a that's going to happen, or they're definitely not going to try and do it.
00:17:29.490 --> 00:17:39.103 So that's the missed opportunity, if you will, the missed value, as opposed to just a hardware manufacturer or something like that.
00:17:41.326 --> 00:17:56.070 Having said that, I mean I think, especially for the high flow stuff, the high lay down stuff, the really big sockets and test sockets, I think we love the platform, we love the printer, we love the company, we love the printer, we love the company, we love what they're doing, we love their attitude.
00:17:56.070 --> 00:18:00.930 It's kind of like can-do kind of attitude and the way they make their machines.
00:18:00.930 --> 00:18:02.306 Nothing's too fancy Like.
00:18:02.306 --> 00:18:07.432 It's the kind of machine where you know you got simple tools you can make it runs, keeps on running.
00:18:07.432 --> 00:18:13.114 So I think from the pro tier perspective, you know, it feels a lot like the prosthetics market as well.
00:18:13.114 --> 00:18:15.798 It feels like the kind of rough and tumble machines.
00:18:15.798 --> 00:18:22.042 So if somebody could put in a backer workshop, it'll keep on chugging away for years and years and you won't have to worry too much about it, you know.
00:18:22.042 --> 00:18:23.609 So it feels like it's a good acquisition.
00:18:23.609 --> 00:18:24.393 From their point of view.
00:18:24.393 --> 00:18:26.652 Especially, we had Equal on the show.
00:18:26.652 --> 00:18:29.088 Equal also has its own machines right.
00:18:29.088 --> 00:18:30.369 That's another French company.
00:18:30.369 --> 00:18:31.893 They have their own machines already.
00:18:31.893 --> 00:18:35.198 So from a French perspective maybe it even makes even more sense.
00:18:35.198 --> 00:18:41.928 We're like, well, wait, wait, why don't we have our own machines right?
00:18:41.928 --> 00:18:44.654 And what better to do that in the US, where we have a unit and we have this big US market open to us?
00:18:44.674 --> 00:18:49.833 At the same time, there may be there's all sorts of talk internationally about tariffs and problems and stuff like that.
00:18:49.833 --> 00:19:07.505 In that context tariffs and problems and stuff like that in that context, it could be really smart to get a machine, because you could wake up tomorrow and some liner or some part of your afo whatever could be, you know, stuck in vietnam, 80 more expensive, not available, whatever that kind of stuff, right.
00:19:07.505 --> 00:19:11.648 And if you're printing a lot more components, well, you have to filament in the machine.
00:19:14.491 --> 00:19:20.597 So so it kind of, especially in that kind of political and if you're printing a lot more components, well, you have to have filament in the machine.
00:19:21.439 --> 00:19:24.741 So it kind of, especially in that kind of political volatility context, it totally makes sense.
00:19:24.741 --> 00:19:27.865 It's a really smart move for them, as a French company, to buy a manufacturing unit in the US.
00:19:27.865 --> 00:19:30.190 That could give an individual prosthetist more manufacturing resilience.
00:19:30.210 --> 00:19:34.459 Now, at the same time, another cool thing is well, maybe Filament Innovation is quite a small shop, which we loved, right.
00:19:34.459 --> 00:19:40.075 But if they were going to go to Hangar and say we're going to make 200 machines for all your stores or whatever.
00:19:40.075 --> 00:19:41.798 Hangar would have been like oh I don't know.
00:19:41.798 --> 00:19:50.912 And Proteor is much more like the kind of place that could be like hey, we're here, you know us, we're good for it, we have the finances to do this.
00:19:50.912 --> 00:20:00.286 So they could, on the one hand, get bigger customers they can use their existing channel distribution to to to get the word out that you have this printer.
00:20:00.286 --> 00:20:07.369 They could develop end-to-end solution and also they can play in this kind of integrated space which I think you and I both think is weird.
00:20:07.369 --> 00:20:16.095 It's a space where it's like we make devices, we make machines that make devices, we make the service you know, like OSER and all these guys are playing in already.
00:20:16.095 --> 00:20:20.711 It's kind of integrated space where we're not seeing that in a lot of other businesses.
00:20:20.711 --> 00:20:23.467 Right, we're really seeing that in a kind of prosthetics.
00:20:23.467 --> 00:20:34.157 Apparently, the client having that client makes so much sense that you can just tack on whatever the hell other service or business you want and they'll take it, even though you're competing with them.
00:20:34.157 --> 00:20:43.174 So that's like something that could pay off really handsomely for them if they could just with that established network and stuff like that.
00:20:43.174 --> 00:20:43.997 They could do it.
00:20:44.244 --> 00:20:49.573 At the same time they're going to have to figure out how to do national or maybe even international service.
00:20:49.573 --> 00:20:56.334 You know, with a printer I always advise companies with desktop printers just put up a pool work with a logistics company.
00:20:56.334 --> 00:20:59.891 It's broken, we collect it, we'll repair it at our own leisure, you know.
00:20:59.891 --> 00:21:04.866 But with these film innovation machines it's like, you know, shipping containery kind of more.
00:21:04.866 --> 00:21:08.413 You're going more towards pallet and multi-pallet kind of size things.
00:21:08.413 --> 00:21:10.848 You're going to have to figure out a way how to support that.
00:21:10.848 --> 00:21:12.711 Now, do you support it in Portuguese?
00:21:12.711 --> 00:21:15.236 You know in, you know local.
00:21:15.236 --> 00:21:16.999 Are you going to try and import these things into Brazil?
00:21:16.999 --> 00:21:19.490 Don't, by the way.
00:21:19.490 --> 00:21:20.733 Are you going to like what are you going to do?
00:21:20.733 --> 00:21:23.726 You know?
00:21:23.726 --> 00:21:30.434 So that's actually quite complicated and given also the yeah, the type of machinery 3D printing is, it's much more complicated than if it would be a milling machine or carver.
00:21:30.934 --> 00:21:41.555 There's much more finicky stuff going on that maybe in Brazil would be more humid and all of a sudden the results are different or they nobody told them about material storage and it's wrecking havoc on the results.
00:21:41.555 --> 00:21:43.865 You know this kind of stuff is very much more difficult.
00:21:43.865 --> 00:21:44.807 So that could be.
00:21:44.807 --> 00:21:50.393 The downside is that the extra complexity of that device and I don't think you know, I don't think it was too expensive.
00:21:50.393 --> 00:22:00.605 I don't think, you know, I don't think it was too expensive.
00:22:00.605 --> 00:22:00.880 I don't know much about the finances, this, you know, I can't, I can't imagine.
00:22:00.880 --> 00:22:01.836 I think it is a well-managed kind of exit for them and for both parties.
00:22:01.836 --> 00:22:01.835 I think it'd be good.
00:22:01.835 --> 00:22:03.755 The team's so small enough.
00:22:03.755 --> 00:22:07.577 It's not like they're going to kick anybody out because there's like there was like like 12 guys or whatever.
00:22:07.577 --> 00:22:10.808 Yeah, we have like 80 percent of the company we had on the podcast.
00:22:10.829 --> 00:22:13.277 Yeah, yeah, so I mean I think it's interesting.
00:22:13.277 --> 00:22:19.614 So I look at what Proteor gains right, Mike's been at this since 2015.
00:22:19.614 --> 00:22:29.913 A bunch of knowledge around his experience of many different types of clinicians, with FDM right People that bought his machines didn't buy his machines.
00:22:29.913 --> 00:22:35.973 The other thing that and he never totes this is that he's a PhD in finance.
00:22:35.973 --> 00:22:43.191 Not only did he run a tight ship that way, but he brings a lot of that information to Protear.
00:22:43.191 --> 00:22:52.074 So, like the human capital right, these are like super experienced, super specific skill people to bring this to the market.
00:22:52.295 --> 00:23:00.669 I think what's interesting, though and you know, this is kind of the first acquisition of its kind with 3D printing and O&P, so you kind of mentioned it, you know.
00:23:00.669 --> 00:23:02.734 I wonder if Equal was ever in the mix.
00:23:02.734 --> 00:23:03.777 Was Hanger in the mix?
00:23:03.777 --> 00:23:04.746 Was Oster in the mix?
00:23:04.746 --> 00:23:24.869 But I think one thing that we didn't touch on is Proteor is not in patient care that I know of, whereas Autobach Hanger, that sort of thing they are, and so I think this kind of like uber, focus on this, the technology stack of okay, we create components, we also make sockets.
